Okay, here's the point, or part of the point: on the surface, it might seem as if the conclusions reached by the Minotaur's justice system are a bit crazy--and they are, except for one thing--to any careful and rational thinking reader, they're not. By the standards of conventional logic, the argument made by the Official Prosecutor is both sound and valid. In other words, the premises of his case (that you can't exist if you don't have a mother, that you can't create or give birth to something already in existence, etc.) are nearly beyond question. They are, by almost any rational account, true. And what's more, the conclusion he reaches is perfectly valid; it contains all of the premises. In other words, the premises are true and the conclusion, because it is valid, is also true. By the standards of formal logic, you can't argue with the Official Prosecutor's pronouncement that Mrs. Anderson doesn't exist. In additon, the Official Prosecutor's argument isn't limited only to the circumstances of the skit; you could apply the same deductive reasoning to yourself and reach the exact same conclusion: logically, you don't exist. (you can find the basis of the argument repeated here: nagarjuna).
And yet you do exist--I think. Logic, in this case, seems to go against what observation and ordinary sense tell us is factual. So does that mean that either logic or our observations are lying to us?
In a word, no. All it means is that the tool, logic, can't be effectively used in this instance. By the same account, addition is a great tool for determining how many chips you'll have after you win a big poker pot, but it won't be of much use in collecting rain drops. Two rain drops plus two more doesn't equal four raindrops; it equals a larger puddle. Observation, likewise, is a great tool for certain situations--such as assessing whether the current weather is suitable for a picnic--but it isn't very good, without the help of certain technologies, for determining the shape of the earth.
Even more to the point, logic didn't really fail in this case; language did. Language is simply too inaccurate to serve as a flattering vehicle for logical analysis. And that brings me to my thesis: language doesn't just express knowledge, it also inhibits knowledge. The key is to make language serve you rather than the other way around. The key is to make sure that you aren't becoming an addict. A drug used properly can cure you of a disease or even open you up to new creative insights, but once the drug starts to use you, once you become dependent, once you can't function without getting your fix, then the drug becomes a disease rather than a cure and it closes you off from, rather than exposes you to, new creative manifestations.
And in a world of addicts and pushers, somebody, a postmodernist writer, for example, has to be a voice of reason and reveal the modern drug-of-choice for what it is--a tool that is being misused and overly relied on. She has to demonstrate the limits and the drawbacks of the drug, which is exactly what certain post modern writers are trying to do with language; they're trying to prevent language from using you instead of the reverse. By exposing the failings of language, the postmodern writer isn't muddling the truth and she isn't doing scientists a dis-service, she's helping scientists and all other seekers of knowledge to see things more clearly and from less restricted perspectives. She's doing an intervention.
And while most scientists understand this, there are certain pseudo-scientists, Richard Dawkins foremost among them, who feel threatened by imprecise and creative uses of language because they're seeking a unifying singularity rather than knowledge; they're seeking confirmation for their own brand of fundamentalism, which they spread through the church of reductionist science. Like the Catholic missionaries of yesterday, the prophets of reductionism are hell-bent on spreading their gospel to anyone who will listen, or be forced to listen, and it isn't truth that matters to them, but ideology, an ideology that anyone can receive if he just opens up his veins, sticks the needle in, and gets carried away by the sense of certainty and cohesion.
The reductionists don't use Science as a tool; Science uses the reductionist to filter out knowledge that it doesn't like--as a means of minimizing what can be known so that everything supports a particular ideology. It's not surprising then that a reductionist would want to do the same thing with language that she has done with Science. Instead of seeing language's limitations and using it only in the limited circumstances in which it's feasible, and instead of trying to re-vision language to make it less able to undermine the truths of experience, the reductionist strives to purify language as a scientific instrument by putting its limitations onto the actual world--to make the world fit the language (and the Science) instead of vice versa.
Properly and narrowly applied, science, like language, can be a useful tool. I'm not questioning that. But I am questioning the value we place on scientific knowledge. It seems to me that by failing to acknowledge the limitations of science, we run the risk of defining science as a dogma rather than as a tool--we're setting it up to be our master, a master that we've managed to codify and embody in words. But words can't be mistaken for the things they represent. The moon is not the same as the finger that points at the moon, and scientific knowledge, which must be expressed through language, either the language of words or of logic and mathematics, is not the same as the truth it attempts to express. This, I believe, is what many post modernist writers are trying to make evident. So, while in certain circumstances, despite its limitations, I might find scientific knowledge extremely useful, even to the point of delegating to it my own less-informed judgment, I don't trust it as my master, and neither should anyone else. If either science or post-modern philosophy tells me, for example, that I don't exist, I'm not going to trust it, no matter how impeccable and accredited the reasoning and no matter how insistent others are that I use no other tool to make a verification.
Here's an article that further details the flaws in reductionist thinking:
Darwinian Fundamentalism
Empty Nest..
8 years ago
10 comments:
Shane,
I think your play hit my points right where they need to be. The "woman's" error was a refusal to accept her sensory information. She refused to accept that her eyes, ears, touch, taste, and smell were telling her the truth.
YOu wrote,"...except for one thing--to any careful and rational thinking reader, they're not." Here we part ways. You are right that something can be propositaionlly true. For example if I said, "when it rains all girls get we. It is raining. Therefore, all girls are wet." Then it is a logically sound argument. However, it is factually untrue. It doesn't pass the "premises" must be valid in order for the conclusion to be true. It is "language" that fails the test her. It is reality (that only can be accessed through science) that succeeds.
YOu wrote, "The reductionists don't use Science as a tool; Science uses the reductionist to filter out knowledge that it doesn't like." Filter, or require proof??? I am a skinnerian (yes even after Dawkins called him a reductionist) -- appeal to authority has no appeal to me. I just can't stand agog at something untrue even if it is stated by someone who seems to grasp truths in so many other areas.
I think our (post modernist/neolignuist/scientist) problem is that we disagree, not on science, but on language. Is there a type of knowing through language that is special, unique, or closer to "truth" than through non-language? I am willing to hear the case for those who do (and i think that you are trying to do just that) but thus far I still conclude that language is a means of communicating information, not a source of generating it.
IN the end, the argument (if there really is one aside from my rabble-rousing) is one of epistomology. How is knowlege gained through any other means than reason and science? YOu can argue that botrh are limited, but can you articulate a case for ANY alternative?
btw I have started my reading (pro and con) on post-modernism and its advocacy. It will be Summer (or longer) before I can finish the texts I have purchased from Amazon (LOVE Amazon.. I am lazy and love to purchase online and have it handed to me a week later).
On another note. Brax and I are going to purchase bicycles. Any suggestions as to brands (moderate price ranges), style, ect. would be greatly appreciated.
HH =)
Hey HH,
You wrote:
"The woman's error was a refusal to accept her sensory information."
Well, actually, it wasn't the woman's error but the court's error, but, yeah....
You wrote:
You are right that something can be propositionlly true. For example if I said, "when it rains all girls get wet. It is raining. Therefore, all girls are wet." Then it is a logically sound argument. However, it is factually untrue. It doesn't pass the "premises" must be valid in order for the conclusion to be true.
Actually, we agree and disagree here. By definition, your example isn't a "logically sound argument." It's valid but not sound. In other words, the conclusion contains the premises (making it valid) but the premises are untrue--or unsound (here we agree on the issue but not the wording). The argument of the Official Prosecutor, however, is both sound AND valid. That's my point. It's valid and sound and, by logical definition, therefore true; yet it leads to an obviously false judgment. In other words, it's a paradox.
You wrote:
It is "language" that fails the test here.
That's only partly true. As I indicated in the post, logic, like science, has to use language to become knowledge. So long as you limit logic to pure syllogism--If A then B, or A v B, etc--then you'll have no problems with paradox, but once you apply actual words and, in some cases, "reality", to the symbols you become less reliable--more prone to paradox. Godel's Theorem of Incompleteness showed, in part, how this happens when logic is applied to mathematics. It's possible to separate logic from language, but by doing so you make the logic meaningless. In the same way, two plus two equals four is meaningless until you apply it to apples or poker chips.
You wrote:
Filter, or require proof???
Filter. If you read Gould's article, you'll see what I mean. Not only do reductionists ignore other kinds of knowledge that don't lend themselves to "the method", they also ignore scientific evidence. In their quest to find a singular explanation for human adaptation, they FILTER out what scientific experts in the field are really saying--I mean, proving. Not only that, but the singular explanation reductionists propose "is untestable, and therefore unscientific". As I recently read on the Ran Prier website, "Scientists have spent decades bombarding fruit flies with radiation, trying to produce a random mutation that would lead to a new species, and totally failed. But in another experiment, fruit flies were put through a maze with different exits depending on environmental preferences, and they formed distinct populations that refused to interbreed." That supports what most evolutionary biologists believe about how adaptation works, but it doesn't support the dogmatic claims of non-evolutionary biologists, pseudo scientists, and reductionist philosophers like Dawkins--so they ignore it.
Okay, I want to address some of the other points you brought up, but I'm too sleepy right now--so I'll have to get back to you.
Not sure about what bike brands to recommend. I'm not sure I can even name a bike brand, let alone recommend one. But that's awesome you're getting bikes. I should probably get my clunker in ridable condition before Spring gets here.
Buenas noches, amigo. Much love.
Okay, I've caught up on my sleep now.
You wrote:
"I think our (post modernist/neolignuist/scientist) problem is that we disagree, not on science, but on language. Is there a type of knowing through language that is special, unique, or closer to "truth" than through non-language? I am willing to hear the case for those who do (and i think that you are trying to do just that) but thus far I still conclude that language is a means of communicating information, not a source of generating it."
Once again, I think we agree and disagree here. We disagree on what we disagree about. I disagree with you, I think, about the value of scientific knowledge. But we agree about language. I think language should be primarily a means of communicating information, and its limitations should be better acknowledged. What I was trying to suggest in the post is that language and science, like language and logic, can't be separated. Not only is the method intertwined with language (you can't hypothesize without language, for example) but the conclusions have to be expressed with language, as well--so you can't say that language has limitations that science doesn't have. And postmodern writers who attempt to deconstruct language aren't generating new information as much as they're stripping away false information so that what lies beneath becomes more evident.
You wrote:
"How is knowlege gained through any other means than reason and science? YOu can argue that botrh are limited, but can you articulate a case for ANY alternative?"
There are LOTS of other forms of knowledge. When a turtle digs a hole to bury, conceal, and protect her eggs, or when a predator attacks its prey from behind where the prey is least likely to counter-attack, or when birds improve their survival rates by migrating South during Winter, they are relying on instinctual knowledge. They didn't receive that knowledge via the method. And I think you could make a good argument that what's known as intuition has something to do with instinctual knowledge.
When you repeatedly practice free throw after free throw or putt after putt or serve after serve, you're gaining kinesthetic knowledge, which, again, has nothing to do with the method. (And I believe you could extend the idea of kinesthetic knowledge to more than just athletic activity--to meditation, to bird-watching, to smiling, to sex, to thinking....).
When you learn how to be a better parent, friend, or party goer, you're not relying on the method but on knowledge that comes via social interaction and emotional awareness (maybe a combination of kinesthetic and instinctual knowledge or a whole new category)--EQ knowledge, in other words.
I could go on and on here. Most of what we do in our daily lives is informed by non-scientific knowledge. And, I would argue, almost all of the things that make our lives worth living, namely, creating quality relationships, are uninformed by scientific knowledge.
And that leads me to the topic you brought up in your latest post, which I'll take up over at your place when I've got more time.
Ciao for now!
I don't know if this was mentioned, and sorry for such a short reply, but...
She failed to reciprocate, and use the same logic against everyone else in the court. Like you said, according to this logic, no one exists.
Though, and that point, she could be ruled as equal to everyone else, and therefore punishable.
I wonder if it really was a dream...
-Clayne
That's a good point, Clayne. The brainstorming assignment that we assigned our group was to write a short piece on how language can be used to manipulate people--but there are tangential issues, as well. Here, it seems as if the Minotaur's court did most of the manipulating, but, you're right, everyone in the skit is "under the influence", so to speak, of language and is/should be punished by it. Everyone is governed by a language that presents reality as a collection of objective and fixed essences rather than a series of interactions--so, in a way, everyone is dreaming a false reality. Using the right language, and the right understanding of existence, then the paradox couldn't have been expressed. And of course we are talking about a land governed by a Minotaur, a very dream-like land in the first place, so we've got a skit being used as an abstraction of reality, which is about how reality is abstracted--fixed and pigeonholed--and thereby manipulated for certain purposes--a dream within a dream within a dream kind of thing. Hmmm.... My head is spinning.
No lenght requirements in the comments section, so no need to apologize. Glad you're staying in touch!
I was reading a list of common logical fallacies typically occurring in debates...
This one reminded me of the your story...
"--composition fallacy: when the conclusion of an argument depends on an erroneous characteristic from parts of something to the whole or vice versa. (e.g., Humans have consciousness and human bodies and brains consist of atoms; therefore, atoms have consciousness. Or: a word processor program consists of many bytes; therefore a byte forms a fraction of a word processor.)"
I can see why you might think that, Clayne, but I don't think it's fallacious. If it is, I would say it's more of an ambiguous assertion than a fallacy of division. Below is my source for the argument. If it is fallacious, and I've read criticisms that suggest that it is (mostly by dint of not clearly defining causality or "producer"), I think it's unavoidably fallacious because of the imprecise nature of language. I don't think language can be as precise as scientists would like it to be.
To me, what the argument indicates is that there are certain elements of reality that can't be understood conceptually. I think that's what Nagarjuna was getting at.
Here it is:
Theories of Causation and their Problems
* The first, self- causation, is exemplified by the Vedic tradition of asserting the reality of the immutable Universal Soul, atman. Briefly, this declares all effects to be inherent in their cause, which cause is in every case some form of the eternal atman.
Problem: A problem with self- causation is that the effect must be inherent in the cause. If so, then nothing new has occurred or come to be.
* Other- or external- causation declares all change to be produced by some form of a deus ex machina, such as God, fate, or a deterministic self- nature.
Problem: A problem with other-causation is that if cause and effect are different then the relation is lost, and, for example, fire could be produced from water.
* A third type of causal theory advocated by some schools is basically a combination of the self- and other-causation. The problem with this is that both of the above two problems are compounded.
* The final option is that neither self- nor other-causation operates, which position is in effect an indeterminism that denies all causation. If anything were to emerge ever, anywhere, then everything could emerge at all times, everywhere.
Shane,
You wrote, "to any careful and rational thinking reader, they're not. By the standards of conventional logic, the argument made by the Official Prosecutor is both sound and valid. In other words, the premises of his case (that you can't exist if you don't have a mother, that you can't create or give birth to something already in existence, etc.) are nearly beyond question. They are, by almost any rational account, true. And what's more, the conclusion he reaches is perfectly valid; it contains all of the premises. In other words, the premises are true and the conclusion, because it is valid, is also true. "
Perhaps the assertion that an "imgainary" creature (professional prosecutor)is capable of making an assertion (a logical one none-the-less) is based on the "fallacy from stolen assertion" contradiction? Can an imaginary creature make any assertion at all? There is the problem with postmordernism in-toto.
In fact the problem with the assertion (given the variables assertained) is that if one must have a parent in order to be real, thus one must be imaginary if one asserts otherwise, violates the assertion of "fallacy of affirming the antecendent". For, if the defendant was "living" then the judge must reject his sensory evidence that the defnedant was, indeed, living. Therefore, the only conclusion (if the judge (scientifically and logically consistant) must have beeen that the defendant was, indeed, illusioury. Thus, no conclusion was necessary. Since, the judge was delusional; however, we know that the judge was the illusion of the writer (here Shane) and, thus silly from its very conception. Anyone else see the problem? I know I do.
I am certain that there are holes to be filled, but irrational ones anyhow.
Much Love,
Trav
Well, HH, I've read over your comments a couple times, and I can't say that I really understand what you're getting at. Yes, there's a certain irony in the fact that these are fictional characters debating each other's reality--an irony intended to show the ambiguous (and maybe even fictional) nature of reality on any level--but, as I said, to Clayne, I don't think the actual argument is fallacious except for the fact that it uses unavoidably vague language, or, rather, it wouldn't be fallacious if it were applied to real people. Are you saying that it would also be fallacious if applied to an actual person--to me or you maybe? The fact that a fictional person created the argument certainly adds to the irony, as I hoped it would, but I think the actual argument, extracted maybe from the fictional circumstances, still holds as valid and sound.
Nice to have you back in blogworld. Now you need to post something.
SE,
I just watched the video. Wow, where does all that energy come from? I'm exhausted just watching. And I can't believe how calm you remained, cooly going about your business, amid all the tumult, yet alert enough to intervene when things got out of hand. Well done.
You've got some cute, even if hyper and rambunctious, kids! (Was I that crazy when I was little? Were you?)
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